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Episode One: We’re Rookies, Too

Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcast

Recommendations from This Episode

Books

Shows

TikToks/Reels/Threads we mention:

Valentina Vee’s thread about shooting in volume

Evan Stern’s TikTok about testing the filming setup for Jacob Tierney

Transcript:

Kathleen (00:12.18)
Welcome to Craving Rivalry, a limited run fan podcast from two Canadian sisters obsessed with heated rivalry, CanCon Television, Ottawa, Cottage Country, romance novels, and of course, happily ever afters. One of us read Rachel Reid’s books years ago, and one of us went into the show completely cold, started watching it three weeks after its release, got immediately hooked, and devoured Game Changer while waiting for episode six to drop, but has not read any of the other books. Yet. But has watched the show too many times than they’re willing to admit. So I wonder, who’s who? How about we introduce ourselves? Zoe, you go first.

Zoe (00:57.964)
I’m Zoe. I’m a Canadian romance author and a voracious reader, and I’m the one who read the Game Changers series when it first came out.

Kathleen (01:08.492)
and I’m Kathleen, I’m chronically online. I love omniculture, so I’m loving all this heated rivalry moments. I actually live in Ottawa, what up, Ilya? And there’s nothing I love more than a Canadian television show. So yeah, I’m definitely the one who jumped in three weeks into the release, even though I did know about this show coming because you kept talking about it and how excited you were for it. just, you know, with the holiday season, it sort of just took me

Just before the break, know the Christmas break getting into it. So I had three episodes to watch immediately. And of course, yes, I did immediately watch three when I did start watching. Together were two Canadian sisters who agree that summers are best spent at the cottage. So Zoe, you’re the one who had the idea for this podcast. How about you set us up?

Zoe (01:59.659)
So this podcast is for everyone who has watched a lot of TikTok edits and has completely trained their threads algorithm and you still want more. You want a long form 20 minute breakdown of, wow, wasn’t that incredible? And why was that so incredible? Just stunned appreciation noises, 20 minutes at a time, episode by episode, inspired by podcasts that break down other TV shows, episode by episode.

So that’s our goal and we’re thrilled that you’ve tuned in to listen to us gush and gab and maybe ask and answer a few questions. Plus at the end, we’ll have some recommendations for you. Each episode inspired by that episode, glorious shows for you to watch and delicious books for you to read while we all wait for season two.

Kathleen (02:50.348)
Amazing. Wow. Bold goals. Recapping a 49 minute episode in like 20 minutes. Think we can do it? Along with all our personal opinions? I don’t know.

Zoe (02:56.139)
I think we can do it. Yeah, I think we can do it, for sure.

Kathleen (03:01.238)
I love it. All right, well, why don’t we head into episode one, The Rookies.

Zoe (03:06.047)
The rookies. So, I mean, there’s so much, my gosh, I have, so I rewatched it yesterday. So how many times have you watched episode one now?

Kathleen (03:15.944)
so… Four? I think this was my, I think when I watched it yesterday was the fourth rewatching of it. So I watched episode one first again, sort of, you know, I guess like late December, like it came out on November 29th. I think I watched it like December 18th, right? And put it on sort of 10 o’clock at night, new in my head. At that point I hadn’t been hearing, even though was December 18th, I hadn’t been hearing, my algorithm hadn’t been fully taken over by Heated Rivalry yet.

But I knew I had it on my crave and I knew it was one I wanted to watch because you had been telling me it’s gonna be great. We hadn’t discussed it though, right? Had you watched it yet? How soon after the release on November 29th did you watch it?

Zoe (03:48.352)
Yeah.

Zoe (04:05.397)
I watched the first episode a couple of days, it was before episode three dropped. So I was holding off because I am not, I don’t like to be edged. I don’t want to watch it week by week. And the thing is, is that on the one hand, I can appreciate the value of that, the way that it builds momentum, anticipation creates space.

Kathleen (04:15.073)
Okay.

Kathleen (04:23.384)
Mm.

Zoe (04:34.599)
on the internet, what did you call it when everyone’s talking about a show?

Kathleen
Omniculture.

Zoe
that is such a good term. I appreciate that from a business perspective, from a culture perspective, but I just want to glom. And so I fully intended to hold off. And then I saw a clip. Thank you Omniculture. I saw a clip of the water bottle scene and I couldn’t hold, I had to immediately watch through, at least to the water bottle scene, because I needed the context for that, to see how they had gotten there. I remembered it from the book. It was one of those peak moments. I just really, yeah, so I caved and I watched episode one. I did not watch episode two. I held off and I watched episode two right before I did the countdown. Did you see people doing this online where they timed?

how far before episode three dropped to start watching episode one and two.

Kathleen (05:37.582)
I wasn’t sure people were doing that with leading up to episode six. I mean, I don’t know who could possibly have waited until episode six dropped to watch one through five.

Zoe (05:42.11)
Yes.

So I shout out to fellow author Allison Temple. I saw her do this. She had the timer going. And so she started a rewatch of episode one and two, leading up to episode three’s drop. I did not rewatch episode one. So I watched episode one and then a few days later, just before episode three dropped like that night, I watched episode two and then immediately into episode three. So.

I watched episode one by itself and then I watched it again yesterday only for the second time. So there’s still so many things that I am discovering on my, just on my second rewatch. Yeah.

Kathleen (06:22.989)
Yes.

So you’re only on your second rewatch of it? my god, I’m shocked.

Zoe (06:27.28)
Yeah.

Kathleen (06:30.102)
And that is actually so true. you know, I watched the first ep, you know, when I watched it, a confession, the first go around, my subtitles weren’t on for whatever reason, I’m not sure. So all of those Russian speaking scenes, I didn’t have subtitles. So you have a kind of feeling of what they were saying, but I actually didn’t know quite the terrible things that Elia’s father and brother were saying to him. There was a little lost on me until the second or third go around of watching it, right? And so then you have a little bit more sort of understanding,

seeing the whole picture. But yes, okay, let’s dive into it. So the series is set up so beautifully for someone who hadn’t read any of the books going in sort of really not really knowing anything more than the trailer. That genuine meeting of them in Regina, December 2008. Fun fact, I can say I’ve been to Regina in 2008. So I’m loving sort of the timeline of that because I am sort of an elder millennial. I’m in my mid-40s and so being like

Zoe (07:23.657)
Yes.

Kathleen (07:29.936)
and I know what up Regina, I’ve been there. So that was just so lovely, right? And to sort of see the characters and go, yeah, Ilya is going to be a troublemaker and Shane is just so lovely and Canadian. And I think that was a genuine meeting. Like I don’t think there was any attraction in that first scene.

Zoe (07:36.168)
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (07:42.343)
Hahaha!

Yeah.

Zoe (07:52.745)
But not from Shane necessarily to Ilya. I think Ilya immediately, I mean, he’s a slut. He’s down to fuck anyone. I think there was something there. I don’t know, or maybe it’s just like his innate sexiness. I think that that’s a moment where you’re establishing for the viewer or the reader in a book.

that this guy is gonna be propulsive. He’s gonna be a driver for pulling them together. So in the book terms, we talk about no way beats, which is when a character states we can’t be together. And then we talk about plot adhesion thrust, which sounds just as dirty as it should. And…

What I love about this episode is that we get this like constant tension between no way beats and plot adhesion thrust, and they just twist tighter and tighter together. And if anyone, just to throw out a quick reference to that, if anyone is interested in the writing craft of romance novels, Gwen Hayes, Romancing the Beats is the perfect guide for understanding how two characters twist two or more characters.

twist together tighter and tighter until the romance is absolutely inevitable. And so that first scene, you’re right, there isn’t like immediate, I mean, what, we go another six months before they meet again. That first scene is just establishing these two characters in a way that promises to the viewer, don’t worry, these two people are never gonna be out of each other’s orbit ever again.

Kathleen (09:45.976)
So true. Yeah, and the setup at the beginning with those sports hosts, I love the theme of using those podcasts. Those are actually TSN hosts who are part of the Bell Media family, who of course, that’s where Crave was created. They do such a really good job just setting up who these characters are. And so we go right into it going, okay, we understand what’s happening here. And then we get to the draft. Shane does so much internalizing, showcasing the difference between Shane and his supportive parents and Ilya and his father.

So yeah, like we’re just building the strong foundation of what we’re in for. And then of course we have our first moment, the clip that you saw online that made you watch it of the water bottle scene. my gosh, the water bottle scene. And the wait.

Zoe (10:20.915)
Yeah.

Zoe (10:28.136)
Woo! Yeah.

Zoe (10:33.383)
And it’s so hot, it is so hot. And all they’re doing is sharing a bottle of water after a workout. But there’s so much, the camera work, the acting, it says so much, it promises so much. That clip was when I was like, Jacob Tierney gets romance. He gets the source material, he is going to do, I mean, I do think that before I saw that clip,

Kathleen (10:41.58)
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (11:02.841)
even though I knew about it and I have like a lot of enthusiasm and excitement for both Jacob from having enjoyed Letterkenny and Shoresy and of course Rachel Reid. I know of her and have read the books and love her place in romance. So I knew that source material was perfect and I knew that Jacob Tierney had this great track record for

doing story well and also doing romance well. mean, one of the things that we’re gonna come back to over and over again, I think throughout this podcast is how much I think that Shoresy is low-key a rom-com in the same way that Deadpool is low-key a rom-com. And so I had hope, but also there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of times when a romance novel is taken and brought into television and then the plot is completely changed to meet the

TV executives idea of what conflict and trauma need to be and really, you know, ruining those beats that I mentioned, the Glenn Hayes beats. Often as a Romeus reader, voracious Romeus reader, those beats get smashed with a hammer and re-imagined into more of like a television film rom-com structure that just really doesn’t

Kathleen (12:08.066)
Yeah. Yeah.

Zoe (12:28.056)
wind two characters together as consistently as inevitably. And the water bottle scene is like an ode to romance novels. And it’s Jacob Tierney saying, don’t worry, I know that I know what you’re hoping for. And this show is going to deliver it. We’re not we’re not messing with the core story. The core story is going to be so faithfully adapted here. And I was in I was 100 percent in.

Kathleen (12:56.194)
You got the wink from Ilya and you were like, I’m in, I’m in. And that’s the thing is this show is so romantic and it’s so much more than just smut, right?

Zoe (12:58.053)
I’m so in!

Zoe (13:08.282)
yeah, but he is also gloriously smart. Like he talks about that in interviews, right? Like that he wasn’t sure how, when you take something and you adapt it to the screen, there are certain rules, of course, that you have to follow. And he just really navigated that really well. The other thing that I noticed right off the top is, and this comes from the books, is that return to the prospect cup again. So,

Kathleen (13:21.23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, beautifully.

Kathleen (13:35.81)
Mm-hmm.

Zoe (13:36.538)
This got a lot of chatter in real hockey talk spaces. So hockey Twitter, hockey threads. There was a lot of discussion about the fact that a first and second pick in the draft wouldn’t return to the Cup, the Prospect Cup, which is essentially like World Juniors, right? And so, but why did they go back? They went.

Kathleen (13:58.53)
World Juniors, yep.

Zoe (14:04.377)
because that was necessary world building. So from a storytelling point of view, world building, especially in contemporary where we are relying on actually familiar world building, right? So that we have the context so we don’t need to like make up a whole sport or whatever. World building is a mix of actually familiar, necessary for plot. And then there’s a third element because a lot of people are like, well, of course, you know, they had to go back as it was necessary for plot.

And here’s a third element that I want to introduce, better than reality. Because if we stuck to what is pedantically, literally, how often the first and second pick in the draft would then see each other over the next year, they would only play two games, one at home and one away. And that’s not enough. We need it to be better than reality. And so I like that Jacob Tierney stuck to that, even though he

has a lot of consultants around him who know their hockey, he knows his hockey from making the other TV shows. He’s stuck with that romance beat because it serves the story best.

Kathleen (15:19.576)
Well, this is still show business, right? And like, right? So there’s nothing wrong with that. And that brings us to the commercial shoot in Toronto, which was 18 months after their first meeting in Regina, I think, approximately. And this is where we find out how down bad Ilya is for Shane, right? Is that fair to say? Yes!

Zoe (15:21.476)
Yeah.

Zoe (15:39.512)
Cause he asked for shame, right? He said, when did they tell you? And then Shane says, when did they tell you? And he goes, no, I asked for you. like incredible.

Kathleen (15:51.638)
And that rolls us, it was right after the commercial shoot that they have to go to the shower, cause you know, only four words and only four words were spoken in that shower scene.

Zoe (15:56.0)
into the shower scene. Which, and the shower scene, pardon?

but you get a complete no way beat when he says fuck off, followed immediately by intense focus and raw, honest curiosity, right? So Ilya clocks Shane’s curiosity, Shane rejects him, but then immediately is pulled back in. And that’s like when he’s, know, tighter, tighter, tighter, winding them together, the no way beat drives straight into plot adhesion because, and this is so beautiful.

One of the things that’s the most amazing to me about romance is how much it explores how characters lie to themselves and to others. And there is this moment about kind of 25, 30 % of the way into a romance novel where they, the two protagonists, two or more protagonists start to really see each other, not for the mask that they wear to the outside world, but what’s behind that mask, which is.

always vulnerability. And we’ll get to that in later episodes when Shane really starts to clock Ilya and what he has going on behind the mask. But early on, Ilya, who’s got such high emotional IQ, immediately is clocking who Shane is and wanting to give him what he needs, even though he isn’t fully admitting that for himself. So that, you know, that character’s lying to themselves and to others, but then not

lying anymore to the one who’s, you you allow inside to see behind that mask. Like such a powerful moment. Which is then… Yeah.

Kathleen (17:39.266)
Four words were spoken. Four words were spoken. You got one of them. Fuck off. There goes our clean podcast rating.

Zoe (17:46.275)
What were the other words?

Kathleen (17:49.451)
not here.

Zoe (17:53.025)
Right, which sets up the meeting. First of all, the running into the mom on the elevator, which is, I’ve seen a lot of chatter about, and we’re gonna come back to this in episode six, was she thinking about that? Years, years, years later, was she thinking about that?

Kathleen (17:59.277)
Yeah.

Kathleen (18:09.358)
Ten years later, yeah. Right, running into the mom on his way up. He was heading up to the 14th floor, she was heading down.

Zoe (18:18.198)
And then Shane upstairs, baby boy getting dressed in a suit for a hookup.

Kathleen (18:26.446)
It’s the only world he knows. You put on your suit and you go to the rink. I don’t know.

Zoe (18:30.029)
and then he’s like, what am I doing? And then he’s casual, he’s just sitting on the chair. Like those sequences, those little like micro vignettes or a micro tableau, which is something I’m now rewatching Shorsey. And you see how Tierney used that really powerfully as a directorial strategy. Really, it’s so effective in the show. It’s so effective.

Kathleen (18:56.92)
So then 18 minutes into episode one, we have our first steamy scene. My least favorite parts of the whole show, by the way, like.

Zoe (19:01.922)
Yeah. Well, practically, technically the shower scene was also steamy because Ilya, you know, offers to take care of himself in front of Shane. So generous, so generous. But the real, the exchange of blowjobs, again, I don’t know, there’s no way to have this conversation and keep it clean. It’s so, it’s so tension filled. Like Shane really thinks that Ilya is just gonna

Kathleen (19:08.845)
Right.

Kathleen (19:13.07)
So generous.

Zoe (19:31.542)
like take his own pleasure and then leave. And then Ilya’s like, I wouldn’t do that to you. And it’s very, again, have you seen the edit where someone splices, we’ll have to share it in the show notes, someone splices this scene with the sex scene in episode six. There’s just shot for shot. Like Tierney’s genius here is, it really, like,

Kathleen (19:50.626)
No.

Kathleen (19:55.192)
right?

Zoe (19:58.016)
When you watch it the first time, you’re like, my goodness, sir. Wow, right in episode one, 18 minutes in, cool. This, wow, smart, all right. But at the end of the first season, you start to see that like the unfolding, the dark to the light, shot for shot. He planned this so carefully. Like it’s really.

Kathleen (20:20.434)
Yes.

Zoe (20:24.661)
I don’t know how many times I can say genius in one podcast episode, but here we are. Okay.

Kathleen (20:28.298)
It’s a work of art. It’s beautiful. it’s like even the smut, like, however, you know, it’s beautiful. It’s like, it’s like beautiful, romantic, all of it, right? Everything, there’s romance at every turn, rather.

Zoe (20:30.765)
beautiful.

Yeah.

Zoe (20:37.919)
Yeah. Yeah.

Zoe (20:42.75)
And yeah, and the angles that he chooses, the light sources that he chooses, the appreciation of the male form. And it’s just like, it’s funny because there are so many, over the last, I don’t know, 25 years, there are so many sex scenes that I’ve seen filmed that either show…

Kathleen (21:04.333)
Yes.

Zoe (21:08.191)
you know, a little too much or not quite enough. He just showed exactly the right amount. It’s remarkable. OK, there he goes. Now I’m using two superlatives, genius and remarkable. And it’s a great scene. really sets the tone for the rest of the show in terms of, you know, this is the heat level you’re going to get. I love that. I love that, you know, that’s clearly established. It is then followed immediately.

Kathleen (21:14.591)
Yep.

Remarkable.

Zoe (21:37.782)
by comedy, which is so good, right? The brunch with his parents and the dad. Now this might be just a funny little elder millennial, zennial moment, but I had forgotten that parents in 2008 didn’t know what YouTube was yet. So when he goes and he tells his parents, sorry, I’m late, I went down a YouTube rabbit hole. And his dad said, what’s YouTube? Because YouTube for the young people who might be listening,

Kathleen (22:02.178)
YouTube.

Zoe (22:06.367)
YouTube only started in 2005. So this was only a couple of years into YouTube. And it’s, yeah, it’s a really interesting time capsule, very, you know, very interestingly captured.

Kathleen (22:11.106)
Right.

Kathleen (22:18.594)
Well, and I think it’s actually would be two years past 2008 because by the time we, yeah, nine or 10, which again, I think, know, again, again, we’re doing better than reality. think five years into YouTube, most people knew what YouTube was, right? So.

Zoe (22:23.713)
Oh, they met in 2008. This is more like 2009. This is the winter of 2009. Yeah.

Zoe (22:36.193)
I don’t know. I’m trying to think of my in-laws. I’m not 100 %- Maybe they did animal videos. Okay.

Kathleen (22:40.928)
Yeah, they’re not as chronically online as we are, get that, but still. for sure. So then we get to the All-Star Game and our first toe tap under the table press conference. And then we get the introduction of Shane Hunter, right? He’s at the All-Star Game. Scott Hunter.

Zoe (22:44.842)
But the line still made me laugh, jumped out of Yeah.

Zoe (22:53.663)
Yeah.

Zoe (22:59.616)
Scott Hunter, yeah. Shame, yeah. Then we get the introduction of Scott Hunter at the All-Star Game and he just jumps off the screen. Also, I have to say, because people keep talking about it online, he is like a hotter Austen Matthews. You’re just like, I’m sorry, but how did you clone yourself into, you

Kathleen (23:21.248)
Yes, yes!

Zoe (23:29.248)
We will come back.

Kathleen (23:29.644)
He’s thinner than most hockey players though, right? Like…

Zoe (23:33.86)
Yeah, although by the midpoint of the season, some hockey players are pretty lean. they sometimes they lose a lot of weight over the season. So I buy him 100 percent as as a hockey player. I did wonder if they put him sometimes on if he like was up on something or if he is actually that tall. And I didn’t Google what his actual height is. But we will come back to Scott Hunter in all of his glory in episode two and episode three, because.

Kathleen (23:52.832)
OK.

Zoe (24:01.105)
as we get closer to the Olympics, the Olympics part of the show. He’s a he’s such a fascinating character. And when we do talk about it, I mean, I have so many questions for you. But let’s move on because we’re sticking to episode one. But there is that brief. This character is important introduction to Scott Hunter, who immediately clock Shane, I think. Do you did you get that? See, this was some debate about whether or not Scott knows.

Kathleen (24:04.142)
Mm-hmm.

Kathleen (24:24.992)
Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Zoe (24:29.76)
that Shane and Ilya are gonna hook up. And I think 100 % he is. He does.

Kathleen (24:34.22)
Well, because again, absolutely. Like, Shane, Scott has been, you know, covering up his secret. So he sort of is picking that up on other people, right? So he’s picking up on clues.

Zoe (24:45.0)
Yeah. And there is an important scene in the books which didn’t make the show, which is at one point later on, Ilya and Scott run into each other at a gay club. And they don’t, you know, they don’t, they pretend not to know each other, but they clock each other. So there’s a little bit more of that layered into the books and there’s just choices had to be made for the show.

Kathleen (24:58.414)
Okay.

Zoe (25:14.452)
Man, I thought we could do this in 20 minutes. We can’t do this in 20 minutes. Episode one is for sure going to be longer.

Kathleen (25:16.63)
No, never once did I think we’d be able to. So after the hookup, after the All-Star game, and they start texting, right? my God, Hollander, you are so boring. Give me your phone. Whereas he’s trying to be like, hey, how are we going to communicate? You say we’re going to get together in two weeks, but.

Zoe (25:29.715)
Yes.

Zoe (25:33.343)
They’re going to be Jane and Lily and they start to, yeah.

Kathleen (25:38.944)
It took me way longer than I’d like to admit as to why the names Jane and Lily were chosen. Like, I don’t think I realized that till almost episode six.

Zoe (25:49.583)
that’s so funny. Yeah. Right.

Kathleen (25:51.328)
right? I was just like, girl names, that makes sense. And like, and whatever. And pretty, pretty generic names too. I was like, Jane and Lily. But no, no, those are intentionally chosen, right?

Zoe (26:02.801)
Yeah, Jane for shame and Lily for Ilya. Yeah.

Kathleen (26:06.368)
Like, sometimes the most obvious things, and again, because it just works, why would I even question it? Why would I even think about it? I have so much other things I’m thinking about.

Zoe (26:16.146)
Yeah, and you know, there’s, it’s so interesting because there’s so many things to pick up on in the show, right? Like it’s hard to hold all of it. One of the things that I didn’t really pick up on as much at the end of, so when I watched it the first time, when we get to the, to the award show at the end of the season, the end of the rookie season, and Shane wins Rookie of the Year.

At that point I was like so like after the we got to two sex scenes in In this episode and I was just like, my god, we’re just going full smut Like they’re a hundred percent gonna hook up here. Is he gonna do another hookup scene on the roof or something? And I just was so like about that that I didn’t really pay as much attention to like the young buck

of it, like how much like the rivalry part of that scene on the roof, which ends episode one. But on the rewatch yesterday, I rewound and rewatched the end three times. Just the tension between them and the, you know, the way that it was shot. And I was really, I want to talk a little bit about this once we get to your final thoughts on episode one. But basically,

their dialogue there when, I don’t know that Shane went to find Ilya. I really think that Shane got a little bit overwhelmed, stepped out onto the roof and Ilya happened to be there. But it could also be read as he actually went to find him because he wasn’t there, right? And either way, there’s this like necessary conversation that they have where,

even though they’re attracted to each other, they are rivals on every level, at every turn, right? And so, you know, I think it’s Shane who says, you know, it could have gone to either one of us. You’re sulking because you couldn’t take a victory lap around me. All you do is beat me. And I’m like, I don’t think that’s actually true, Shane. I don’t think all he does is beat you. I think you take turns beating each other, literally, tonight. And then Ilya goes, not everything is about you, Hollander.

Zoe (28:34.664)
And it’s just like, like this is about to get really rough and rocky now, right? Which is just such a good point to end episode one. And I think that was the point, like I didn’t actually, I wasn’t as conscious about it, but I do think that’s the point when I was like, okay, hang on, I need more episodes before I watch episode two, because I think you’re gonna emotionally wreck me with each of these episodes.

Kathleen (29:01.582)
And that, well, with most streamer shows, even if they are gonna be releasing them once a week, they still give you two episodes off the hop, right? Like that’s pretty common. so, cause you need the second one, right? Cause you know, you’re hooked and then you immediately go into episode two. So that’s what, you know, I was like, I can’t leave at the end of this. Like I need to know what’s going on here. Yeah.

Zoe (29:10.108)
Right.

Zoe (29:20.093)
Yeah.

Zoe (29:24.807)
But I did manage to leave at the end of it. And it’s so funny, you know, that I just think that the end of episode one is actually like a really strong hook in and of itself. Anyway, okay. So what did you think at the end of episode one? Now you watched all three episodes in one glom, right?

Kathleen (29:44.728)
Yes, I did. I just, you know, a tease, I love episode three. It was probably my favorite. So I would say I was like paying attention one, two, sort of, you know, watching, being on my phone as I do. Three kind of caught my attention the most. And then…

Zoe (30:01.275)
Mm-hmm.

Kathleen (30:04.192)
and I loved and I really love the characters of Scott and Kip probably more than Shane and Ilya. Again, you grow to love them and you get really invested, but that’s why I immediately wanted to read Game Changers, right? Well, was waiting for more, but I appreciate that the story’s all around Shane and Ilya and like there’s so much to unpack there too. So, but it’s nice to have a couple different storylines and a couple characters through it all.

Zoe (30:11.964)
Yeah.

Zoe (30:26.119)
Yeah.

Zoe (30:31.515)
Yeah.

Kathleen (30:34.106)
stood out for me at the end of episode one is just those feelings that Ilya is having about going back to Russia for the off season and how tortured he is about that and just the two different dynamics of the two different families, right? And how, yeah, I do think Shane went looking for him, right? Because again, Shane just kind of sees the good in everyone and is like, you know, we’re doing this thing that is usually reserved for people who care about each other.

Zoe (30:39.908)
Yeah.

Kathleen (31:00.578)
And you should be happy that I won this award and you can’t even come and celebrate with me, right? And we’re not anything, et cetera, et cetera.

Zoe (31:09.128)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’m… We didn’t touch on Ilya’s family and Svetlana, who I love.

We’ll talk more about that in episode two. But I do, you know, there is that interesting thing about they’re so young. And so I think one of the reasons why we immediately love Scott and Kip is they’re grownups. And Shane and Ilya are not yet grownups. They are two very young, very talented athletes who have been pushed and pushed themselves to this elite level.

Kathleen (31:28.141)
Yeah.

Kathleen (31:34.391)
Yeah.

Zoe (31:48.977)
and there’s not a whole lot of room for emotional growing up in there. So that’s gonna have to come and that’s the next episode they’re for. This was so amazing. There are a few things that I wanna talk about outside of the episode. Well, one is immediately sparked by the last scene, which is they’re on a rooftop in Vegas, but they are not on a rooftop in Vegas, right? So I just learned about this.

Kathleen (31:55.48)
That’s so true. Such a good point. Yeah, such a good point.

Kathleen (32:10.892)
Mm-hmm.

Kathleen (32:14.806)
Nope.

Zoe (32:17.836)
they filmed this scene. It’s remarkable. There is a TikToker who we will share the notes, we will share the link to her video. She breaks down how this was filmed. And then just the other day there was a little Easter egg story about how they tested this technology to see if it would work using two of the actors from Shorsey. So there exists

footage out there of two of the actors from Shorsey playing Shane and Ilya on a rooftop in Vegas because Tierney wanted to test out this filming setup. And in the TikTok, the AD who breaks it down calls it shooting or filming in volume, which means filming in front of a giant TV screen. And it was first done

for the Mandalorian. So it’s technology that was developed, I guess, by Lucasfilm or Disney. And at that point, very exclusive, very expensive, but it has become more accessible and more affordable. And I think that there’s gonna be a lot of discussion about how heated rivalry managed to film on a mix of real life locations, local to us, shout out to all of the Hamilton scenes.

Kathleen (33:42.028)
Yeah. Hamilton and Guelph represent last summer. I guess this summer. Yeah, technically this summer. Yeah. Yeah.

Zoe (33:42.725)
We’re going to talk about that more. Yeah, the early it was like, yeah, this spring and summer, very local to Ontario locations. But they also filmed some very far away locations using this this special setup. And so I want to know more about that. That’s something that I’m going to try to do some more research on before we record our next episodes. And I’m just I am.

I’m gobsmacked at how good it is, how good it looks, how faithful it is to the books, and really just what a wonderful community event watching it has been. And when you texted me that you had read Game Changer after episode three, or like I guess after episode five, while you waited for episode six,

Kathleen (34:35.37)
Episode five. Yeah, it was after episode five. Mm-hmm.

Zoe (34:40.42)
I just thought there’s something really special going on here. We need to talk about it. need to do an emergency pod. Okay.

Kathleen (34:47.37)
And that’s why I love Omniculture so much, right? So like, because we’re just so fragmented with having so much content.

at our disposal, we’re old enough to remember the Friends finale, you know, the Cheers finale where they filled the sky dome with people, right? Taylor Swift last year brought us all together with Omniculture and then some of the big streaming shows occasionally like original Stranger Things when it first came out, but Stranger Things was released on Boxing Day and the only thing people cared about was Heated Rivalry, right? And so that’s where when you make a product or you make

Zoe (35:00.949)
off yeah

Yeah.

Zoe (35:14.726)
Yeah.

Kathleen (35:26.178)
TV show that’s just so good, the people will find a way because they have a voice, right? They have social media, they have Reddit, and they have voices. And so when the original trailer for Heated Rivalry came out and all of the Americans and people, I think mostly the Americans, again, biggest population, loudest voice, were like, excuse me, how are we getting this? It’s only available to Canadians? Like, can I get a VPN and create a Crave account? Like, you know, got the attention a lot faster of HBO Max.

Zoe (35:33.162)
Yes.

Zoe (35:47.362)
Yeah.

you

Kathleen (35:56.128)
than anything else, right? And so, and then all of this content that is being created and you just ride the wave, right? Like,

Zoe (35:58.072)
Yes.

Zoe (36:03.456)
Yeah. And I do want to give a very friendly shout out to all of those Americans who love how Canadian it is. Like that warms my heart so much. I love it. Speaking of Canadian, do you have any Canadian TV show recs for people if you finish watching Heated Rivalry and you want to watch something else? Is there something else that people could watch while we wait for season two?

Kathleen (36:12.002)
Yeah.

Kathleen (36:32.458)
Me? Just watch Hated Rivalry over and over over over over again.

Zoe (36:33.432)
Yeah, do you have any? You’re like what? Don’t spring this on me!

That’s, that is fair, but I also want to challenge people to maybe give Shorsey a try.

Kathleen (36:45.856)
I have never seen Schorzy. will admit that. I know you are a big fan and I am now a huge fan of Jacob Tierney and Will.

Zoe (36:50.81)
Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, I don’t want you, I want everyone else to give Surethee a try. I don’t want you to give Surethee a try just yet, because we might need to do a pod about that. And so I want you to watch it fresh at some point, so that we can talk about it. But I do think like Schitt’s Creek also scratches that itch.

Kathleen (36:58.872)
Okay.

Kathleen (37:08.59)
Okay.

Kathleen (37:14.638)
100%, 100%. That was another one that originally when people were first getting into it, I had a hard time getting into it. And then again, it just lined up with my head space. Maybe a year and a half later, I tried it again and I was like, why have I been sleeping on this show? I think it works anytime.

Zoe (37:33.987)
Yeah.

Kathleen (37:35.278)
If you all, you know which other one actually I would highly recommend is, and it’s on for Canadians, it’s on CBC gem Americans, they can just find it, Blackberry. So Matt Johnson, who was in Nirvana, the band, the show created, it was a mini series. It’s like four episodes, three episodes called Blackberry. And it’s a beautiful retelling of a very Canadian tech story.

Zoe (37:46.797)
Yeah.

Kathleen (38:05.232)
Blackberries that were heavily featured in, course, he did rivalry for those earlier scenes. Another very Canadian thing.

Zoe (38:09.465)
Also has a hockey connection.

Kathleen (38:15.596)
Huge hockey connection. So I would recommend that I actually just read, I think it’s about four years old. I actually just recently re-watched it maybe three months ago. Totally holds up great storytelling, good act, great casting and the costume director, costume stylist, what’s the term? Costume director, right? Of Heated Rivalry also did the costumes for Blackberry.

Zoe (38:24.984)
Yeah.

Zoe (38:40.185)
that’s an amazing connection. I love that.

Kathleen (38:42.846)
Yeah, and there is, for episode three, when we do the breakdown on episode three, there’s a nice little Easter egg on costumes that I found that, I think it’s episode three, yes, it’s the Scott and Kip episode. So there’s something in there that I think you’ll quite enjoy, so.

Zoe (38:54.677)
I cannot wait.

I’m so excited. Okay, I also want to wreck some books because these are based on books. So the first book I’m going to, well, it’s actually a collaboration. It’s not out yet, but it’s coming soon. Earlier in the episode, I mentioned Allison Temple, who’s a queer romance author. And she is one of the people who early on I was doing a lot of this like online talking about heated rivalry with.

She is one of, think, six or eight authors who are releasing a Winter Games collaboration, and it’s called Love on the Podium. And so if you like queer sports romance, there’s a whole bunch of new ones coming out. So I’m going to recommend that, and Allison’s also Canadian. There’s also a few other book recs that I want to recommend if you like queer sports romance.

Kathleen (39:35.566)
Mmm.

Zoe (39:55.5)
Gravity by Tal Bauer, Two Guys, One Puck by J.R. Gray, which is college hockey, not pro hockey. Loving the Legend by Kit Grey, which is pro basketball, male-male romance. And then for those who are watching Heated Rivalry for the romance and not so much for the sports, I’m gonna recommend Cubs and Campfires by Dylan Drakes, which is a lightly retro, very sweet, very cozy, but still spicy, male-male romance set in the Pacific Northwest. So we’ll put, I’ll share all of those online or in show notes. Yeah. And so that’s, you know, one of the wonderful things about doing a deep dive like this is that you can find a new author to read. And I love making book recs. So there you go. Something to read, something to watch while you wait for season two of Heated Rivalry.

Kathleen (40:35.246)
We can put them in the show notes for sure.

Kathleen (40:48.11)
Yeah.

Zoe (40:53.631)
and also for episode two of Craving Rivalry.

Kathleen (40:57.608)
And if you are heading into the office, know, again, Christmas break is almost over. If you’re heading into the office, it’s totally appropriate to talk to your coworkers about this show because it’s more about the love than anything else, right? So.

Zoe (41:09.463)
100 % if you next episode I’m gonna tell everyone more about the Shane Winter Olympics Sherpa jacket I am currently making my own I will share Rex for how you can make your own it’s easier than you think and with that I think we’ll well yeah we’ll see you very soon you can rewatch episode 2 with us and then come back for another debrief.